Increase Your Productivity Through Knowing Your Enneagram |Tess O’ Driscoll

 

How Tess increased productivity through knowing the enneagram

Tess O’ Driscoll is a mother, business owner, and Enneacoach. Tess started this last year after learning that people can increase their productivity through knowing the Enneagram! She helps coach individuals, mothers, businesses, couples, and even parents on how to best use their Enneagram to better propel themselves forward in life and in business.

So, what is the Enneagram?

The Enneagram is a personality system that classifies people according to how they interpret the world and express their emotions. As Tess says, ” I like to attribute it to when you go to The Disney Princess Test and it shows you what different princess it is. The Enneagram is different because you cannot just take a test and know what you are. It takes time to figure out your number because once you figure it out, it’s accurate. It’s definitely one of the most accurate readings or testing I’ve ever seen, so it’s way more than a personality test but it’s kind of exploded and been such a useful way for people to connect to themselves.”

This week’s episode is all about the 9 different personality types and how to apply them in your life to increase productivity through knowing the enneagram.

“Knowing your Enneagram number allows you to stand up with the power that you have” -Tess O’Driscoll

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS:

In this episode, we cover: 

  • The Enneagram- what is it?
  • Understanding your personality and how it can complement other types
  • Running a business with children at home
  • Finding the right time to start a business
  • Identifying a unique service to grow your Instagram.

Now, check out the resources and links mentioned during this episode:

Did you miss our episode last week? Surprise! It was actually two! Go check out parts one and two of Mary Clavieres, who developed the dreamiest postpartum underwear for moms!

CALL ME CEO

Episode: Tess O'Driscoll

[MUSIC]

CAMILLE WALKER [0:02]

What is your Enneagram? That seems to be the new buzzword question. I've heard this so many times and I am really excited about diving into this conversation with The Enneagram Mom. Tess was a social media manager for a bunch of clients and during COVID, fell in love with Enneagrams, the test, figuring out who she was, who her husband was, her kids, her friends and has, since then, created a massive following helping to coach others succeed and also to better communicate and understand their partners, children and themselves with Enneagram coaching.

So, what are you and how can understanding your Enneagram help you to develop and grow your business? How can it help you become more successful? To use your time more wisely? Well, jump into this episode because Tess and I are going to break it down, and by the end of this episode, you should know which number you are.

[MUSIC]

CAMILLE [1:10]

So, you want to make an impact. You're thinking about starting a business, sharing your voice. How do women do it that handle motherhood, family and still chase after those dreams? We'll listen each week as we dive into the stories of women who know. This is Call Me CEO.

[MUSIC]

CAMILLE [1:28]

Welcome back everyone to another episode of Call Me CEO. I am here with Tess O'Driscoll, who is The Enneagram mom, and helps coach individuals, mothers, businesses, couples and even parents on how to best use their Enneagram to better understand how to propel themselves forward in life and in business.

Tess, I am so excited to talk to you today.

TESS O'DRISCOLL [1:54]

Oh, thank you so much for having me, Camille.

CAMILLE [1:56]

Yeah. So, the Enneagram, I've got to admit it's come in like a wild storm. I feel like it used to be the color code back in the 80s or the 90's, I don't even know. And then, the INFJ, I don't even know what that's called, what that is officially called. But the Enneagram seems to be that new buzzword that you need to know to help you understand who you are and how to move forward in your life.

TESS [2:21]

Yes. I like to attribute it to when you go to The Disney Princess Test and it shows you what different princess it is. The Enneagram is different because you cannot just take a test and know what you are. It takes time to figure out your number because once you figure it out, it's accurate. It's definitely one of the most accurate readings or testing I've ever seen, so it's way more than a personality test but it's kind of exploded and been such a useful way for people to connect to themselves.

CAMILLE [2:57]

I love that and I really think that's interesting because honestly, I'm a bit of a newbie with this, so I'm really excited to talk to you about this. You offer coaching to moms, one-on-one. So, what we're doing today is actually something others can tap in and connect with you to do as well. Tell us about who you are, how you started, how many kids you have, just so that the audience gets to know you a little bit.

TESS [3:22]

Yes. Okay. So, my name is Tess. Last year, when the whole world shut down, I actually had a business where I was a social media manager and I helped other people around their businesses. I was making ten thousand dollars a month and just rocking my business. Within that week that the world shut down, I went from ten thousand dollars a month to four hundred dollars a month. It rocked not only my family but it rocked me really hard because I was doing something that I was really good at but I didn't actually love it. I was just really good at it.

This was actually the time I decided to pivot my business and I found the Enneagram and I couldn't stop talking about it. I couldn't stop sharing about it. I became obsessed with it and that's when I realized I could share this. I have this message. I have this voice that I can use and I can share it with people. I decided to use The Enneagram Mom to help moms, to help dads, parents and children to understand themselves better because I believe this world would be such a better place if we all would just dig a little bit deeper and understand our strengths and weaknesses a little bit more.

So, it's definitely grown into a whole thing and it's just been incredible to see my reach. I've been able to speak at retreats. I just spoke at one last weekend that was incredible. I've been able to do one-on-one calls. I did a Zoom for over two hundred people for a local business. I have been able to reach out to so many people and knowing this about just myself and knowing it about my husband and then figuring out my children's types has been completely changed my marriage. It completely changed my relationship with my children knowing their types. I want that for everyone. I want everyone to have that better understanding of themselves.

CAMILLE [5:25]

Well, I think you just described the dream job. I wonder if we have some things in common because connecting to others and helping them discover who they are, that is why I started this podcast. That sounds so much fun to me and so empowering for individuals and parents and couples. I think that the Enneagram, the little I know about it, really feels like a safe place for people to identify with a group and say, "There are strengths and weaknesses in every personality." I've heard you can even have the main number then you have the wing number and all of the things. I don't even know. But I feel like it's an easy to approach subject that doesn't feel like you're going through massive therapy to have a better understanding of who you are.

TESS [6:16]

Yes. I think there's also the difference between this and maybe other personality types is there's nine. So, I feel like people can be like, "Okay. I can kind of think of nine." It's not an overwhelming IFNJWXYZ. It's not that complicated. It's just nine numbers, and then the more you learn about it, the more you're going, "Oh. It's not just you're one number." You have a wing and there's even subtypes behind it. There's just so much depth in the Enneagram but there's also so much ease to it that just makes sense.

CAMILLE [6:53]

Wow. Okay. Well, I'm excited to dig into this. During this episode, we're actually going to go through each of those nine personality types and share how you can use an understanding of your personality to help propel your business and your life forward, so that you can feel more empowered with your individual traits and what you have going on within you. So, we were just talking right before this. You're a mom of three boys.

TESS [7:16]

Yes.

CAMILLE [7:17]

Yes. How long have you been married?

TESS [7:19]

I have been married now for eight and a half years, almost nine years.

CAMILLE [7:24]

Okay. Awesome. I feel like you're right in the mix of kind of one of the busiest times of motherhood. Say their ages again.

TESS [7:31]

Six, three and two.

CAMILLE [7:33]

Oh, yeah. Oh, momma. That is the busiest. I have three boys and a daughter. I know exactly where you're coming from. So, I really appreciate your time and I�m excited about this.

TESS [7:45]

I think one thing that I was trying to decide if I could start a business because I was like, "I'll just wait until my kids are older." And I just had this train of thought and impression that, "This isn't about you. It's about helping other people." And that, for me, was a huge, "Okay. I'm just going to go for it because I can't fail if it's not about me."

CAMILLE [8:05]

I like that.

TESS [8:06]

It's been a rough ride having little kids but I'm so grateful for this journey.

CAMILLE [8:13]

I find a lot of people, mothers especially, will ask, "When is the right time?" I think you really tapped into a clear directive. It's more about, what is that burning voice within you saying, "This is bigger than you and opening your mouth about it is more about blessing others around you." I think that's what you described and that is a purpose and that's what motivates you forward.

So, if you're listening to this and you're like, "Man. I'd really love to dive into my purpose and my why". you can actually go to callmeceopodcast.com and snag a free five-day guide to discovering your purpose and your why and maybe that will help you also in discovering your Enneagram.

So, let's dig into that a little bit more. I just barely, before we got into this call, hurried and took a test as quick as I could but I found that I had percentages of 84, 98, 88, 81. Those are all really high in four different numbers. Where do you suggest people go when they first start getting started?

TESS [9:15]

Okay. So, usually, there's a good, better, best that's there. A good way is to take the test. I usually recommend truity.com.

CAMILLE [9:24]

That's what I was on. Perfect.

TESS [9:26]

I like Truity. I feel like theirs is usually more accurate. So, truity.com. What you can do is you take the test and you're going to end up with some numbers. You're going to end up with a lot of different numbers. You end up with these numbers that are high. It might say you are for sure a Type One or whatever it says. But really what I do is I look at those top numbers, and then I would listen to my podcast.

I have The Enneagram Mom podcast. I go over each of those Enneagram numbers and listening to that, I can go into depth and you can literally sit there and go, "Oh, yeah. That totally explains me or not at all." So, it really is all about the fear and the motivation behind each of those numbers. That's what's going to lead you. We may have similar traits between all of the numbers but there's that fear and motivation behind why do what you do. That is the reason that you are the Enneagram number that you are. Not just your behaviors. That's where a lot of people get some hang-ups. A good way is to take the test.

A better way is to read through all of them and examine it yourself. The best way is to literally grab the book. It's called The Road Back to You and it is a quick simple guide that goes through each of them. Also, my podcast, I go through each of them because I am more of a listener. I�m an avid podcast listener all day long. So, I'm like, "This is just a great way to hear about the different numbers and to be putting those around you into numbers" and going, "Oh my gosh. My husband's so accurate an Enneagram Five or whatever it is." You start to balance everybody around you, so you know how to better interact with everyone that you are with.

CAMILLE [11:10]

Oh, that's fascinating. So, for me, my 98% was a Three. 88% was a Seven. And then, 84% was a Two and 81% was a One.

TESS [11:28]

Okay. Perfect. Okay. If you'll notice, you've got all of these and they're kind of all over the board but they all have very, very similar traits. I'm interested as I'm going through them, which one you're going to pick because I kind of believe it might be one but I'm not going to tell you until we go through this.

So, as I'm going through them, what you're go to do is go, "Oh, that definitely describes me a little bit more." And maybe what I'll do at the end of describing all of them, I'll ask you some questions, so you can for sure know your number by the end of this call. Does that sound good?

CAMILLE [11:59]

Sure. Okay. Let's do it.

TESS [12:00]

It's my favorite. I love it. When you're like, "Oh. I'm this number." I'm like, "Oh. You know yourself. Okay."

So, the Enneagram One is known as The Reformer. They are perfectionists. They like for things to be done a certain way. They are avid list makers, list creators. They like to have multiple lists going on and they like to follow things in order. The world needs to make sense for them. They also have an inner critic that's constantly telling them it wasn't enough. They need to work harder. They should have done more. So, it can be very, very heavy for a Type One because even if they finish something that's fantastic, they still are looking at the flaws behind it.

Next, we have an Enneagram Two. They are known as The Helpers. They are the people that just can't help themselves. They have to take care of people. If they see someone that they know needs help, they will go out of their way above and beyond to take care of anyone else. But they struggle to know their own thoughts and feelings. So, if you ask an Enneagram Two, "How are you feeling?" They'd literally be like, "I don't really know. I don't examine my own feelings. I examine everyone else's around me." But they cannot help to give to others and it's the biggest strength and the biggest weakness at the same time because boundaries are really hard for a Type Two.

Type Threes are known as The Achievers. These are the people that have 12 million things going on because they are multitaskers. They like to get things done and they like to be patted on the back when they're done and be told what a great and wonderful job they did. They like gold stars. They like trophies. They like everything to be a great way but they're shortcut takers, so that's what makes them different than a Type One who has to follow the exact way to do things. A Type Three is sort of like, "I don't even care. It just has to be finished in the end. I just want to see my finished product." So, they are achievers of the world and are constantly looking for a way to give themselves value in this world of seeking value. I am a Type Three. I love being a Type Three. All right.

Type Fours are known as The Individualists. So, these are the people that truly believe that they are different in this world and they are usually seen as very unique. They have very, very deep thoughts and deep emotions and it's really hard for them when they are in a difficult place to pull themselves out of it. They actually like to stay in a sad mood for long periods of time. Usually, they'll look at sad photos, watch sad movies during this time because they want to sit in these deep, deep feelings and these deep emotions. They're usually unique and different but they have a whole desire to belong to everyone around them. They want to belong but they want to be different and stand out. It's a counteractive process.

So, Type Fives. I�m trying to think. I just lost the word. They are The Investigators. It's like there's a word there. The Investigators. These are the people that are the Googlers. They need to know all the reasons why. Type Ones, they want to follow a list. It doesn't have to be right or wrong, it just has to be their list. Type Threes want to get things done. Type Fives are the Googlers. They, not only, are going to do it, they are going to do it very correctly, precisely. They are going to look up the 12 different ways to do it, find the best person that's done all the research to follow them. They need the power and the knowledge that comes with everything they do. Sometimes, they can seem very cold to people because they are the least connected to their emotions because they think through logic. They are the students of the world, where you give them, "This is the problem I have." And they'll be like, "Oh. Well, it could be this or this." There's no emotion involved. It's just they're sitting there with a problem and can come up with both solutions but there's no emotional connection. Those are Type Fives.

Type Six are known as The Loyalists. These are people that are incredibly loyal to a brand, to people that they're with. They also have this fear or worry that's with them where they might think in worst-case scenario. You will notice that they are the people with their diaper bags packed and they will have everything labelled. They'll have just in case. My sister's a Type Six and she makes sure that she brings snacks for my kids because she knows I won't pack those because I don't think that far ahead. So, she's like, "I brought snacks for my kids and your kids." But these are the people that are prepared and these are the people that can come in and say, "Oh. This might not be a good idea because what if this, this, this or this happens?" Because they're always thinking in terms of safety. What's the best way to keep them safe?

Sevens, these are the enthusiasts of the world. They are fun. They are ready to go. They are lively and excited about life. When they enter a room, they just can take the show. They're so fun, so giving. They have a drive to understand people around them, so they're constantly craving new adventures and new experiences because that's what gives them life and energy. The thing about the Type Seven, they are doing all these things because they have serious FOMO. They have this worry that they're going to miss out on something fun and doing this is also their way to avoid pain. They want to avoid pain. They want to avoid confrontation. They want to avoid anything that's going to hurt and they do this by entering into new adventures to keep them from getting too deeply sitting in their feelings.

So, Eights, they are The Challenger. Challenger may sound really, really bad but these are the people that they jump in on something and they are all in. They have usually been told they're too direct, too bossy, too right to the point their whole lives. But, in fact, when a Type Eight is passionate about something, they just talk and talk and talk and talk and they share. These are also people that are not afraid to bring up challenging conversations because they want to understand where people stand in their situations because Type Eights love strong people. They don't love to be around weak people but they love to protect the weak. These are the people that if they see an underdog or they see someone in pain, they are more than willing to step up and protect them. Also, if you become friends with a Type Eight, it is very rare that they will open up to you and be weak around you because they want to always be seen as strong.

And last but not least is the Type Nine. So, my brain has just gone apparently. Nines are known as the comforters of the world. So, these are The Peacemakers. These are the ones that are constantly avoiding confrontation at all cost, which can be very frustrating and overwhelming for them at times. They might come across as passive aggressive at times because they're avoiding from the world and inner conflict and it actually makes them want to sleep. So, they will go to sleep and they get more sleep than any other type. They're literally right next to The Challenger who is like, "Oh, let's do a conflict." And they're like, "So, what can we do to not have a conflict?" They're often middle children who were put in situations where they had to be the mediator among their siblings but they don't have to be middle children. But they do see this as I need to be calm, be balanced and they're extremely difficult to motivate because they see from their own perspective. So, that is all the nine different Enneagram types.

CAMILLE [19:49]

Wow. That's fascinating. As you're going through with each one, I was thinking, "Oh. I think my kid might be this" or "I think my husband might be that." So, I can see how this can be a rabbit hole that you could just go, dive down, and there'd be an endless supply of things to think about. That's really fascinating. You fell in love with these Enneagrams. You started your Instagram account. How long ago did you start that?

TESS [20:12]

So, my Instagram account, it actually was before my business account and I just switched the name of it. That was back in June of last year that I took the step to become the.enneagram.mom instead.

CAMILLE [20:25]

And you've seen a lot of growth since really niching down with that. Haven't you?

TESS [20:28]

Yes. When I switched, I think I was at 2500 followers and since doing Enneagram content, I have now hit 6000 followers. Within six months, my growth.

CAMILLE [20:42]

That's incredible, especially during right now, growing on Instagram is so freaking hard. It is so hard. But one thing that's really interesting about this is that you've identified a unique service of something you can provide value with and people know what they're getting when they're following you. They know that they're going to get value of following this guide and knowing what it is that they're diving into. So, I think that's good on you. That's awesome. I forgot to mention that you also have your podcast that you just launched as well.

TESS [21:18]

Yes. So, I have one called The Mystery Kids podcast. I actually started it for my son because I used to be a third and fourth grade teacher. He loves all those mysterious stories and weird things. I couldn't find a good child appropriate podcast so I just made my own. I need to stop doing that. I made my own. So, I started that last year and that blew up. I just launched The Mystery Moms podcast in sequence with that so it's just been fun. That was more for just fun and it made my heart so happy.

CAMILLE [21:52]

So, are you a Three?

TESS [21:53]

So, I am so a Three.

CAMILLE [21:55]

I'm listening to you and I�m like, "Okay. I know what's happening here." Okay. Well, cool. I think after listening to you talk, I can see that I believe I am a Three. However, there's a lot about the Seven that I'm like, "I can see a lot of Seven in me for sure."

TESS [22:13]

Threes and Sevens are very, very similar. The whole thing behind it is as a Three, do you need validation or are you looking for value in what you're doing? Success is a lot to you. Whereas, as a Seven, what you're doing needs to avoid pain.

CAMILLE [22:31]

Yeah. I think that's what's really interesting. I think for me it's about using my time with purpose. It's a lot about having that value and then also identifying how I can help with others. So, when you talked about learning about others and sharing about others, yes, that lights me up like nothing else. That's why I love this podcast. It's because I can shine light on others and really connect and feel that higher vibration of connection.

TESS [23:03]

Yes. So that makes me wonder then if you're the exact same Enneagram as me which is a Three with a wing Two. That means that you have those Three traits where you want to be successful and you're driven but you pull in those Two helper traits where you have that desire to really go for it and help other people in their journey as well. I wonder if that's where you're pulling those from.

CAMILLE [23:27]

Interesting. That's really fun. Okay. So, let's talk about for everyone listening, how they can use their number to help propel their business and what that can look like? Because I did an episode just a few weeks ago about mind mapping and filling your team where there are holes in the way that your mind works and actually how your mind processes information and connection. This is really fascinating to me maybe because I feel with the Enneagram, it kind of gives you a different format or way to look at things to help you as well. So, I'm really excited to dive into that.

TESS [24:03]

Oh my gosh. Yes. So, I have a business partner that I do with, it's called The Intentional Mom Planner, and she is an Enneagram Seven. She comes with all these fun ideas and plans and she literally just looks towards the future. She's like, "Hey. We're going to do this, this this." Because that's fun for her. Whereas, for me as a Three, I actually make those things happen. She's got the ideas and I push to make them get finished. So, you'll notice, especially if you're in a business partner relationship how important it is to know these Enneagram numbers because then you want to use those strengths and be like, "Okay. You're really good at this and I'll handle these traits to you." Maybe, connecting with people. "Okay. We're going to hand you these traits." Whereas someone maybe is more number-savvy and that's where you hand them, "Okay. Here's the stuff that involves numbers." And that would be more Type Fives, Type Ones that have to be a little bit more rigid.

But you want somebody that's a spokesperson that shows up in stories, that can talk, that can share a message, Type Threes, we are there. We can talk about nobody's business and share a message and that's okay. That's what I've learned. Right now, I'm not working on my mailing list because I know that the Type Three, my voice is better used on Instagram and Instagram stories. And then, once the time comes, I'm going to pick somebody up and be like, "I'm just going to hand you stuff for a mailing list and you just do it. You just tell me what I need to plug in." Because I know that's not going to be my expertise.

So, knowing your Enneagram number allows you to stand up with the power that you have. It also helps you to find people who are different numbers and go, "You would be so good at this. Let's team up together and get this product out or share a message in whatever way you're looking at." That's the beauty of the Enneagram.

[MUSIC]

CAMILLE [26:11]

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[MUSIC]

CAMILLE [27:01]

So, what I want to know is I have a lot of women that will come to me and say, "Hey. I'm ready to hire. I'm ready to expand my team." How do they find the right people for the team without saying, "Hey, take the Enneagram"? Would you just say, "Take the Enneagram"?

TESS [27:18]

I would totally say, I'd have that. I actually was talking to, her name is Kylee Ann Studios, I don't know if you know her. She is absolutely incredible. She also has a business podcast and I just had her come on my podcast because she's an Enneagram One. She likes for things to be done in a very specific way and she is a photographer, a brand photographer and she has people underneath her. She has a whole team. It's incredible.

One of her questions is "What's your Enneagram number?" when she hires people because she's not going to hire people based on their numbers but she wants to know how their brains think when she's going to hire them. So, if their brains think like this, she's like, "Oh my gosh. You would be so good in this area." But someone else would do better in this area.

I would completely have someone take the test or have that as part of your written. Big companies do that as well. They do it with the Gallups StrengthsFinder. What's your Gallup? What's your strengths? It's the exact same thing. If you were looking to hire or have someone in your team with you, you have to know how their brain processes things to have a better understanding of them.

CAMILLE [28:30]

Yeah. That makes sense. Let's talk about motivation and going through the different numbers. I feel like a lot of times, especially as a mom, we get overwhelmed with the to dos and having to manage everyone else's lives and motivation can a lot of times for everyone be a factor. So, let's go through and talk about each number and helping to dive into what the motivation would be for each one.

TESS [28:52]

Yes. Okay. So, the motivation, I'm going to pull up my chart that I have. That will help me. Motivation for each number is going to look a little different and it's very interesting because I feel like that's what it gives you. It gives you that idea of what you need to be motivated to push yourself forward. I actually did some really fun goal setting once right at the New Year's. I talked about how each type sets the goal and actually goes with the goal.

So, I talked about how each one needs other people. Enneagram Ones, they can uphold their own ideas. Their motivation is, "I have an idea. I'm going to hold it to myself and I can do that." Type Ones and Type Sixes, they can meet those inner exceptions and outer expectations. Whereas, an Obliger, these are the people that they would meet outer expectations but they have to fight their own inner expectations. Those are Twos, Threes and Nines and a lot of people see that as bad. Why do I feel like I have to get help from other people? That's not bad. That's just how your brain processes things. As a Three, I will post things on social media because I know someone's waiting for me to finish it.

CAMILLE [30:25]

I've done that. Sure.

TESS [30:26]

Yeah. I posted my to do list today so I can be held accountable to my audience. That's okay. My motivation is going to be outer. I need people to motivate me from the outside. Realizing that, whether you have a good friend, you need to be motivated through someone else does.

Now, the Questioner is a person that they resist outer expectations. They meet their own inner expectations. This is Fives and Eights. They see things and they're like, "That's interesting." But they need to do their research behind it and they need to make sure this is what they need. And then, they will be motivated internally if the questions and answers match up.

The last one is the Rebel. This is all from if you've read her book Four Tendencies by Gretchen Rubin. She's amazing. But the rebels are Fours and Sevens. It's just what it sounds. They rebel against outer expectations and they rebel against inner expectations. Fours and Sevens do that for different reasons. Fours desire to be unique and desire to be different, so they have a hard time setting motivation for themselves. The same with the Sevens. The Sevens because they like the spontaneity in their life, everything's going to be penciled in because there can't be too many plans because they won't be able to do all the fun things that might all of a sudden come up along the way. They're going to rebel against having too much structure when, in fact, structure is going to give them more time. The more that you start to understand how you meet other people's expectations or you desire to meet them, that's going to help you in your business as well and in who you are.

CAMILLE [32:10]

That is so interesting. When working with couples, I guess if you have a story to share, that's fantastic. But if you have ideas of sharing, what it's like when you've done this for couples where it's helped them to identify themselves and also their partner?

I actually did an interview with two women last week, the Band of Mothers, and they were talking about how they have their own marriages and then also their work marriage with each other. Once they understood the Enneagram, they were so much more understanding, productive, able to fulfill their duties and also take a step back and really try to understand it from their perspective. Do you have an example of a time that you've seen that within a marriage, maybe your own, where understanding the Enneagram has really helped you?

TESS [33:01]

Yes. Okay. The biggest thing for me was actually that's what made me decide that the Enneagram wasn't just really cool. It actually was like, "Oh my gosh. This has changed my marriage." That's what switched the switch for me. My husband's an Enneagram Eight, The Challenger. As soon as I read that, I was literally like, "Oh my gosh. This makes so much sense." My husband thinks differently than me, which we all know that. Men and women, we totally think differently, but knowing that when my husband brings up something maybe confrontational, he's not doing it in a challenge of our marriage, which emotional Type Three me is like, "I don't feel loved and needed." He's over there going, "I don't understand it. I just asked you a question." Knowing that about him that when I have those deep discussions with him, they can get a little tense for me as a Three, who wants to please people. I'm like, "This is a lot of stress." He's over there going, "I feel so connected to you. I feel like we have a deep relationship because you took the time to talk about these kinds of things because that is how I connect is having those in-depth discussions." And that's what my husband is looking for. He's looking for a partner that can stand up for themselves. It doesn't have to be the same beliefs with him but they need to be able to stand up for themselves and be strong and be determined.

I've seen that in so many people's marriages. I have a lot of people that are Ones, Fives, and Eights. Those are the most common ones and it's because those can be also seen as a challenge. Ones having a husband that's a perfectionist or sees numbers in a specific way and can come across as very rigid can be very difficult. Fives who are not connected to their emotions that just show, "Okay." They're like, "I don't even think he loves me." When in fact, a Type Five shows love by doing things and being there for a person.

When I spoke at the retreat that I was at last week, it was all about relationships. I spoke about how Type Fives don't show love in a typical sense. They do things to make sure you're taken care of. Literally, there's just tears, just tears from women who are just like, "You're telling me my husband loves me this whole time but I just haven't seen it." I'm like, "Yes. That's what the Enneagram can do. It can help you see that just because someone doesn't do something the same as you, they show love the way that they need to show it and give it. Now, you can show them in their way how they need to receive love as well."

CAMILLE [35:48]

I love that. It's really fascinating to me because as you're talking about these different personalities. I'm sure, just like the people listening right now, you're thinking about somebody in your life who displays those tendencies or those characteristics. Isn't it interesting that a lot of times the opposites attract? An Eight would not want to be married to an Eight. They would just be challenging each other. It would be exhausting. They would never get anything done because they'd be arguing.

But I think it's just interesting where it's the opposites that bring us together but over time, those could be the things that pull people apart because if they don't dig into that and really realize, "Oh, that�s the fundamental thing about them that attracted me to them in the first place. It doesn�t mean that they don't love me now." It's just understanding that it's a different way of thinking. It's a different way of processing. It's a different way of looking at the world through our lens.

TESS [36:45]

Yes. So much and I feel like so often, we are trying to understand those around us but if we haven't taken the time to really understand ourselves, it's even more difficult. Why does my husband behave like this? Internally, why am I having to struggle that my husband's acting like this? That's what I love about the Enneagram is because I will do something and I'd be like, "Oh my gosh. I�m so an Enneagram Three." I will do something or I'll be multitasking, my husband's will be like, "Can you look at me in the eyes while we're having a conversation?" I'll be like, "No. You're interrupting me. I have things I have to do." And I will be like, "I have things that I have to do until I die." Now knowing that about me, I feel that to my core.

CAMILLE [37:36]

Yeah. I'm just laughing because honestly, one of my favorite most annoying things about my husband that I love about him is that he will pull me back and be like, "Hey, why do you have this arbitrary deadline? Where is this deadline coming from? Where did this come from? Do you have to be pushing yourself this hard? Who is telling you to do this?" I'm like, "Oh."

TESS [38:03]

Myself. My inner self told me this had to happen. We hold ourselves to that. Oh, yeah. It's a real thing.

CAMILLE [38:11]

So, that's where sometimes it's annoying to me. I�m like, "But that's what I want to be done." But then I'm also so grateful for it because he can really pull back the curtain so to speak and say, "Hey, but just chill. You're okay. It's okay if it happens a month later, a week later. Life will keep going on. Everything's fine."

That is the luxury of being your own boss where you can decide my deadlines but that also adds a layer where if you have goals that you're trying to achieve, I think writing goals down is so empowering and so important. But also realizing there's so much beauty in being your own boss. For everyone that's listening and thinking, "Oh. I have this goal I've been trying to reach and it has to happen on this certain day." But if you're making progress each day, even if it's just a little bit, that is progress. I think that that's something especially as women and mothers, we get on ourselves about of having to get things done at a certain time.

TESS [39:13]

Yeah. And as Enneagram Three, that is our goals are our mission in life. We don't understand people that don�t set goals. Even stupid goals like "I'm going to have the dishes unloaded in ten minutes" and you're trying to beat yourself. Yeah, it's a real thing. We compete with ourselves all the time.

It's so interesting because as you look at each Enneagram number, you see the beauty in the way that they do things. I have a friend that's an Enneagram Nine and I was just like, "You need to get moving. You just need to move your body and just get going and make yourself be motivated." And now knowing, "Oh. That's not her. That's me. That's me. I make myself be motivated. I will put a goal out there." But a Nine, they need someone else. They need someone else to show up with them and participate with them. They need a reason that they're doing it. Once you realize that, it gives not only you permission to become who you are meant to be, it gives them permission to be themselves as well. You don't have to hold them to your fake pretend standards because all of a sudden, you're going, "Oh. These standards aren't even real. They live in their own standard and that's okay."

CAMILLE [40:30]

I love that. I think there's a lot that I could dig into that with each of my kids. I think your account is the perfect place to go to really dig into that and maybe is there a test? Depending on their ages especially, I don't know that they could answer it for themselves and they're ever evolving and everything else but is there a resource that you would point someone to if they're trying to understand their kids' Enneagram?

TESS [40:58]

So, I actually just did a whole series on kids and it is on my blog which I link in my bio on Instagram. In that, I have all types and how to figure out your child's Enneagram types as best you can. You really have to go off of behavior, but I've been able to figure out the type of my six-year-old. He's an Enneagram Seven. That was really freeing to know that there's a reason he wakes up at 6:30 in the morning and is ready to go. He literally sees life with so much joy. And then, figuring out my three-year-old is a Nine. He's a lot more chill and calm. But understanding those traits about them and going, "Okay. This is what I believe they are." I start parenting them.

On that blog, I have resources. I have children's books for each Enneagram type that will help them with their specific struggles as they're growing up. I also have parenting books for each type and teens plus if you're trying to also feel yourself or your Enneagram self as well. I have those resources. It's kind of hard to get children's Enneagram types but you can usually go, "I think they're this or this" and start parenting them accordingly until you know for sure.

CAMILLE [42:15]

Okay. That's really neat. Have you ever read the book The Whole Brain-Child?

TESS [42:19]

I have heard good things about it.

CAMILLE [42:21]

I'm in the middle of it right now and I feel like it's so fascinating about connecting your child's understanding with their right brain and their left brain and how to help build that channel of connection so that you can help them to become functioning adults, which is a huge job, you guys. This is a huge job. This has been so fascinating. I've loved hearing about this. If there was one piece of advice that you've learned along your way of building this business and really going after this dream. What would you say that has been?

TESS [42:54]

I think my biggest piece of advice is to give yourself permission to be what you're meant to be all along. I think a lot of the time, we're trying to accept who we are right now. We're trying to love ourselves. But knowing that you have a purpose and you're going for it, you can become a healthier version of yourself. You can become better and giving yourself that permission to go for it is what I would say. You can pivot. You can change. But you have a purpose, so speak out and speak your truth.

CAMILLE [43:28]

Oh, I love it. It's been so awesome to talk to you today. Please let the audience know where they can find you online.

TESS [43:34]

So, I'm @the.enneagram.mom on Instagram and I'm very, very active over there, so I hope you come and join me.

CAMILLE [43:46]

Oh, I would love that. Well, I'm definitely going to be hanging out with you over there and many more things in the future. I feel like we're going to be connected forever. So, thank you so much for taking the time in the midst of chaos and thanks for being here. It's been such a pleasure.

TESS [44:03]

Thank you so much for having me, Camille.

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CAMILLE [44:06]

This week's review comes from khdaewsombvxz. Yes, that's really their name. "Finally, I have been waiting for someone to step forward and highlight the amazing contributions of women not only in the �kitchen�, but in so many other aspects of our community. This podcast should highlight those ladies who have already found success but also encourage others to find their own path to self-fulfillment. Thanks Camille."

Well, thank you so much for this review. It literally lights up my life to see these reviews and see that these episodes matter to you. So, thank you, thank you, thank you and if you would like to be featured as the review of the week, please go to wherever you're listening to this podcast. Leave a five-star review and rating and I will share it here on the air. You can also join us @callmeceopodcast on Instagram or in our Facebook community where all these likeminded women are there hanging out at Call Me CEO community. Thank you so much for being here. It really is such a joy to connect with so many incredible women and that includes you. Every single one of you listening to this podcast, it means so much to me that you are here and I hope this episode has inspired you.

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